Janine on Pain, Paradise, and the Power of Feeling Everything

On Pain and Paradise, Janine reveals the duality grief

Death has a singular way of reshaping the way we connect, create and carry ourselves through the world. For the New Zealand born singer-songwriter, Janine, that journey is woven into her latest project, Pain and Paradise—an album born in the aftermath of losing her father. Equally colored by joy, growth, and love, Pain and Paradise reflects the complex duality of both light and darkness uniquely experienced in grief. In our conversation, we explore her process of creating the record—the easy and not so easy moments—and how vulnerability (in all its chaotic beauty) has become both a compass and a gift to her and her listeners. What follows is an honest exchange about turning heartbreak into art, balancing pain with celebration, and the courage it takes to be fully present in feeling.

Janine is a multi-charting artist whose work has landed on several Billboard charts. She was nominated for New Zealand’s Critics Choice Award and won Best R&B Album at the New Zealand Music Awards in 2015. Her sophomore album, Pain and Paradise is currently available on all streaming platforms.

@zjaffa: I know that having read up on you, the project and listening to it, it was created in the wake of losing your father. And as someone who's also lost a parent, my mom, I was wondering, while you were creating the project, which songs came to you immediately and which ones did you have to pull out of you?

@officialjanine: I'm really sorry to hear about your mum. It's such a crazy pain that's very hard to describe. And I know every parent and relationship is very different, but I'm really sorry that you've had to go through that as well.

There is obviously a lot of songs that aren't about loss on the record. And then there's a lot of songs I've written that haven't quite made it to the album yet, that I'll spend a bit more time on. I think, to be honest, any of the ones about Dad actually came very easily—the writing came quite easily. The hardest part was really just recording and putting it together.

“Make You Proud” took me years to be able to fully record. I'd go to record it, my voice would just break, and I'd start bawling and have a whole mental breakdown. I know everybody's different, but sometimes, once you get into that kind of hole, it can be very hard. It can be days before you can sort of come back. And with singing, I quite like showing character in my voice, but there's a point where it breaks and then it just sounds really bad and I can't control the notes. This is why I'm also terrified to sing the song on tour. But I really want to, because I feel like it's an important part of the story.

@zjaffa: I always think it's so powerful when people can turn the hardest and most traumatic moments of their life into something beautiful that other people can cherish and love as well. I think it's really special that you've been able to do that. I'm curious what you feel you've learned about yourself in the process of making this record?

@officialjanine: I've always been a person that's very vulnerable through my music. Maybe there's a part of me that's really seen how I've had to push through. I do think I've always worked hard. I've cried over every project. I've worked extremely hard on things, and I agonized to the point of losing my mind over the smallest things that no one else probably hears. But this was a different level. I think I had to push through more than ever with these songs and recording them. And I think there's an element that feels special to be able to put out music, but more special for other people to relate.

I don't know if I learned this through recording, but just how many people are dealing with severe grief at all times. And yet it's something that is taboo to talk about. I always find as the griever, you spend more time trying to make other people around you feel comfortable than actually feel comfortable yourself.

@zjaffa: So much of what you said I deeply relate to, but one thing that I really want to emphasize is the reluctance. It feels like everyone, like you said, is going through some sort of hardship, whether they're also grieving someone or something else, but everyone's so afraid and reluctant to share what they're feeling online. The overall theme of this upcoming issue is called Back to Feeling. And it's predicated on the notion that so many people online are apathetic, and people act like it's cool not to care, but it's so important to be loud about the things that you love, hold them close to your heart, and be vulnerable—both in person and online. I'm curious what you think about that, and how you think Pain and Paradise fits into the conversation?

@officialjanine: I mean, first of all, I love everything you said. I 100% agree. My album is called Pain and Paradise because I believe they both coexist. And I talk about how sometimes you're 99% to 1% in any direction. Most of the time it's a little bit more complex or mixed feelings. Whether you're happy because something amazing happened, and then sad at the same time that someone's not there to experience it with you, or you're deeply depressed the person's not there, but then you have that glimmer of hope and gratitude that it existed in the first place.

It's been a weird one with promoting this album because there's also so much joy. I met my partner while I was recording this, I'm writing happy songs….There's a bit more change in the genre because it came from being so sad that I couldn't listen to sad music. So there's upbeat music, which is why you get songs like “Happy”, where it sounds a little more upbeat, but then you listen to the lyrics and you're like, oh, this is not a happy song. I am celebrating both in the album. It is a dedication to my dad and to anybody who's feeling both—and letting people know it's okay.

When it came to promoting and putting a press release together, it was like, how do I celebrate both? Because as soon as you put loss, death, grief, everyone is like, this is a depressing album. Some people are going to be like, I can't go there. But it's also an absolute celebration of the good things I have now—even the good things that I don't have now—and how all of it intertwines. I just think everyone's lives are so much more complex and I think that's kind of the conversation that I'm trying to show. You can be both, and it can be in a day or in an hour.

@zjaffa: You mentioned earlier that you sometimes don't have the energy to engage with people's comments who are also experiencing loss. Many of us know that grief isn't linear, but none more than those who've experienced it. In those moments where your cup is empty so to speak, what songs, books, shows, albums etc. helped replenish you? A pattern for me is to just kind of put on my headphones and mute the world. What are those practices for you?

@officialjanine: I don't really have as much of a playlist. For me, it's sort of walks. When I'm doing my best, I take some time to do some meditation or write notes or do daily pages. That’s something I've been needing to get back into. Unfortunately, when life gets crazy, sometimes it's the first thing that goes, even though it's the most useful.
But also, anything Doechii right now. If I'm feeling a bit meh, I'll just put anything of hers on and I’m good to go!

@zjaffa: I love that. Doechii for new school. In terms of old school, who would you say is your go-to?

@officialjanine: I mean, I love like Aaliyah. And then it's funny because he's like, not even that old school now, but I love Craig David. I grew up loving Mariah Carey, Celine Dion, Donna Summer. I've had a new thing where I've just been listening to Donna Summer again. I used to love like a bunch of her like disco songs that are really fun.

Now it’s so much great music, like a mixture of different phases that I've gone through. Even my own music is so influenced by R&B and hip hop, but then a bunch of ethereal music like Bon Iver and Sigor Rós—stuff that's atmospheric. Now I've gotten more into different house as well. And obviously, I think Afrobeats is one of those genres where if you don't like it, I don't know…something's wrong.

@zjaffa: Now you sound like me. What is a song you would defend with your life, even though most people might think it's kind of bad?

@officialjanine: I just thought of the cheesiest song that came up, “Truly Madly Deeply” by Savage Garden. It’s the corniest song in the world. It was big maybe in the 2000s or 90s and it's so cheesy. Another one I've been actually playing around with doing a different version of is “I Want It That Way” by Backstreet Boys. The song makes no sense. You don't know what anybody wants in that song, but it doesn't matter because it's still a vibe. I'll go with those.

@zjaffa: I've never even thought about what they meant. That's so funny.

@officialjanine: I have. And nobody knows.

@zjaffa: What would you consider a green flag if you saw it on someone's Shelf?

@officialjanine: I think a fun mixture of music like. Personally, if I saw someone that was into old school R&B, but then also some fun pop stuff, that means they don’t take themselves too seriously. A general mixture with things that show someone's open minded. Do you have one? Can I hear yours? I know it's my interview, but I would love to hear your answers.

@zjaffa: Generally, having an array of interests, I would also consider a green flag. But if there's Lauryn Hill on your Shelf, I'm immediately your friend. If there is Justin Bieber on your Shelf? Immediately your friend. Also, if you're reading anything by Sarah J. Maas, we have a lot to talk about.

@officialjanine: I love it. I also love how different they are. You see, you would fall into that category. You've got Lauryn Hill—solid, amazing artist. And then you've got Justin Bieber, also an amazing artist, but his journey is very different.

I go through phases in life where I'm big into something, and then recently I've been so into the album. And because I do everything—I made the artwork, I do the edit, I record, I produce, I engineer—I'm so involved in every aspect that my days have been 18 hour days, but I go through phases where I'll be into books, or I'm listening to audiobooks. I should shout out my friend Arlan Hamilton. She's amazing. She's got a couple of incredible books. She's got one book called It’s About Damn Time. I'll have to add her to my Shelf.

@zjaffa: What was the last piece of media that genuinely moved you, and why do you think it did?

@officialjanine: There's a movie called Tinā. It's actually a Pacific film, from people back in New Zealand. And one of my friends was the stylist for it. It was her first film. She herself is of Pacific descent. The film is based around the earthquakes that happened in New Zealand. The way I would oversimplify it would be a Polynesian Sister Act (to a degree) movie. But it's stunning. It makes you laugh and it makes you bawl your eyes out. And it's just so beautiful and so moving. I came out and was like “I don't know how to process how great this movie is”, so I would recommend Tinā to everyone regardless of your culture and your relationship to it.

Curious about what else Janine is into? Get real-time updates at shelf.im/janineofficial